[JohnB]

in reply to: The Forum #1425

As somebody who was part of the discussions and movement many, many years ago to establish an IAS website and forum when the whole internet thing was new, I am very much in favour of keeping the forum!
The forum, facebook and now twitter links were never meant to be interchangeable with facebook and twitter intended for social chatter only and the forum for when security from public eyes is needed to discuss matters around our fields of work which we need to remind ourselves is extremely sensitive and something the ‘press / media’ just love to sensationalise given even half a sniff of what they feel is a story.
I would point out that NOT everyone who is listed as having access to our facebook page IS a member of the IAS !! I would add to that the fact that ANYTHING posted on facebook or twitter is then by law deemed to be in the public domain.
I would very strongly urge that we keep the forum but use it as it is intended to be, a safe secure area where members can discuss techniques and other sensitive matters safely.
We are a small organisation with only a few hundred members worldwide so the forum will never be inundated with postings, but when postings have been made I have been amazed how quickly matters have been resolved.
Finally as a side issue, is there any reason why members cannot download the new news mags and news supplements directly from the IAS website rather than as now where they are first posted as a fluff file on the Bristol University server and then after 2 weeks the news magazine only is moved to the IAS website?
Best wishes to you all
John

[JohnB]

in reply to: Marjorie England #1274

I have had a number of people contact me asking about the funeral arrangements for Marjorie England. Sadly her funeral is likely to be delayed as it is not known if Marjorie had any living relatives, although it is believed she may have a niece living either in the USA or the UK. Hertfordshire Police are trying to locate her and are also trying to locate and identify her solicitor. If anyone has any information that may help please let me know and I will pass it to the police and as soon as funereal arrangements are made I will let people know.

Heather, please could you ask Marjorie’s old colleagues at Leicester as they may know something.

John Ben

[JohnB]

in reply to: Marjorie England #1272

As Donald says, it was devastating news to hear about Marjorie, and also like Donald I am saddened that I was not able to attend her last meeting with us in Glasgow.
Many of our younger members will not have met Marjorie although they will know her name from the Dissection Prize that is named in her honour and which she was herself able to award at the Glasgow meeting.

She had been a loyal member of the IAS for many years before she became Vice President and then President and was always supportive of the Institute and its aims. She will be much missed by those of us who knew and worked with her.
Her obituary will be published in the next news magazine.

[JohnB]

in reply to: Phenol prohibition #1226

Hi again Anthony
Just to clear up a couple of things, or maybe make the picture more confusing – Phenol IS very nasty, dangerous stuff and is now banned in the European Union as a biocide and can no longer be used in the production of many products such as plastics. In pathology this hit us very hard as phenol is very effective against pathogens such as TB.

For departments such as ours it comes down to RISK ASSESSMENT i.e are the risks of using Phenol worth its use??

The EU Health, Safety and Welfare laws are very clear! If there is a safer alternative that does the same job you MUST use it!

Formaldehyde also came under the same EU legislation and although removed from many factory processes a suitable alternative has not so far been found for medical use BUT the requirements for its use have been tightened – better ventilation that reduces the atmospheric vapour to a maximum of 1PPM is an example, and that can be expensive!

For Phenol, when most university / hospital health and safety officers did their risk assessment on how it was used, they decided the risks to health were far too great and ‘upgrading’ the ventilation etc to the DR is in most cases too expensive, and as suitable alternative embalming fluids were available – it was an easy choice, following the risk assessments and the use of Phenol was banned. Some departments following risk assessment chose to continue using it. It all comes down to a carrying out a full and detailed risk assessment in your own department under the H&S Laws that cover you, and that is something that is well worth doing, you may well be surprised by the results!

John

[JohnB]

in reply to: Phenol prohibition #1223

Hello Anthony,

I am a retired Chief Biomedical Scientist and for the last 20 years of my working life I was also Safety Officer for a very large University Hospital Pathology Department, so I’ll have a go at answering a surprisingly complex question about Phenol.
Phenol has been and still is widely used in many industries, and it is known that Phenol and its vapors are corrosive to the eyes, the skin, and the respiratory tract and repeated or prolonged skin contact with phenol may cause severe dermatitis or even second and third-degree burns. Inhalation of phenol vapor may cause oedema of the lungs. But possibly more important is that Phenol has been demonstrated to have harmful effects on the central nervous system and heart, resulting in dyshythmia, seizures and lead to coma. Long-term or repeated exposure of the substance can also cause liver and/or renal failure.
In my time there was no positive evidence that phenol causes cancer in humans, but that may have changed in the last 6 years since I retired, – it certainty has been demonstrated to be carcinogenic in animal experiments.

Besides its hydrophobic effects, another mechanism for the toxicity of phenol may be the formation of phenoxyl radicals.

So, Phenol is nasty stuff – It is neurotoxic producing symptoms akin to Parkinson’s disease and may even cause death; prolonged exposure causes pulmonary oedema, cardiac damage and liver and renal failure, and chronic dermatitis. Contact with the eyes may result in blindness.

Phenol is absorbed through the skin, by inhalation and accidental ingestion.
Hope that helps? If you need more in depth details contact me through the members page and I’ll see what I can find for you, but it’s possible others may have more recent information.
John

[JohnB]

in reply to: Departmental Support for IAS #1211

Hello Ali
Well Carys has beaten me to it and has outlined the advantages of involvement with the IAS very well! There is also the question of staff development and CPD.

It would be interesting for us to know just why your department doesn’t support your membership and involvement at meetings etc and just what they would like to see and consider a benefit – there may be something we could look at introducing.

That said when I was employed by the University of Nottingham I was in the same position as you and got no support except for one short period when we had a new HoD who himself joined the institute. I have always has to pay my own meeting and membership fees. The Uni of Nottingham also had a policy that while ‘academic’ staff could attend meetings etc and were financially supported, ‘technical’ staff couldn’t even though in many cases they held the same degrees or qualifications!

I would like to hear from members to see what happens in other establishments. Maybe it will identify places the IAS should ‘target’ in support of members and to introduce the IAS to places that may not know the benefits membership can bring.

John

[JohnB]

in reply to: spring scientfic meeting at UCL #1125

Hi Rachel

The dates were only confirmed a week ago and will be 25th and 26th March, which are a Monday and Tuesday.

Hopefully I will have more details in the News Magazine which should be out in a couple of weeks.

John

[JohnB]

in reply to: Test Announcement #857

Hi Donald

Test message received and acknowledged as requested!:)

John

[JohnB]

in reply to: Future IAS meetings #839

Hi Steve

I agree with the autumn meeting 2010 being in Dublin. As has been discussed, 26th-27th August is a bit early but as Garry cannot hold the meeting in September the dates he suggested will have to do. It’s a sad fact but WHENEVER and WHEREVER we hold our meetings, it will not be suitable for everybody! – Even Australia and South Africa!! I think it important that we accept Garry’s offer as a) we don’t want to discourage our Irish membership, b) we haven’t been to Ireland for a few years c) it ensure a mix of membership who may not otherwise be able to get to our UK meetings and d) it gives us a chance to attract more non-members to the meeting and increase our membership numbers. WE will have to confirm the dates a.s.a.p. and encourage people to book early including their flights if they are to get the best deals.

Keele for the Autumn meeting 2011 would be great if they could host the meeting. Paul, what do you think?

Re the Spring meeting of the IAS 2010. If the meeting starts at 10, to get there for registration members travelling from around the county would have to start out VERY early or travel the night before, which means extra accommodation costs. I am strongly in favour of starting around 12 as that means we can travel to London in the morning AND take advantage of off peak time travel and discounted fares.

I think the joint spring meeting gives us a real chance to shine, and I think it also gives us the chance to attract more sponsorship, which in turn would give us more finance to play with for the meeting.
I would suggest we need to start now in approaching companies and as I am geared up to do so following the HYMS meeting I would be happy to take it on to try and increase the number of our ‘long-term’ sponsors now that Wolfvision, like Adam Rouilly, have agreed to do so.
If everyone is happy with this could you send me the details of any companies you deal with, Vickers, Chemsol etc, and I’ll see what I can do. Thanks. :cool:

Cheers all
John

[JohnB]

in reply to: Future IAS meetings #833

Hi Everyone

Rambling does have a point about moving the meeting to the start of the summer vacation, which could indeed make travel cheaper, but the problem with that as I see it is there would only be three months between our AGM and joint meeting in London (April) and a meeting in Dublin in July.
Also it would then be nine months between a july Dublin meeting and the 2011 AGM.

Do we really want to hold meetings so close together and then so far apart?

But I also agree with Tracy that we must not discourage overseas members. (I’m biased anyway as I love going to Ireland!). :)

[JohnB]

in reply to: Future IAS meetings #826

Terry has raised the very point I intended to raise.

In my experience airfares are more expensive around the bank holidays, and this extra expense could deter some people from attending. Also many families go away at the August bank holiday to get a last break in the sun before the onset of autumn and winter, so again this could affect numbers attending.

Like Terry, being retired, if I do attend I am likely to extend the visit to a week to take advantage of cheaper travel and turn the meeting into a holiday in Ireland.

If the meeting is in England I would favour Keele as they have been offering to host a meeting for some time, and when I visited Anatomy at Keele just before the Hull meeting the offer was raised again and they are very keen.

John:?

[JohnB]

in reply to: Proposed new WEL for Formaldehyde by HSE #816

Very well done Dave! So from what you have said we can continue as normal for now, but it would be good to see the notes as written confirmation to make sure we are on firm ground.

This does also show how poor is the dissemination of information from official bodies and how important it is that we all exchange news and information on the forum!

From me goes a big Thank You to SueO for raising this and to DaveA for finding the answer! I will now contact my numerous NHS safety adviser colleagues, none of whom had even heard of this proposal!

John:D

[JohnB]

in reply to: Spring 2010 Meeting #814

Morning All
Don just phoned me to see if I got the prompt about Steve’s new post – and indeed I have.
Just a quick addition before I go out. The points Steve makes about the suggestions coming from BACA / ASGBI about the topics for a joint meeting is interesting. If they are suggesting topics that would not in the past have been their normal type of subject but more in our line, then I am MORE in favour of having a joint meeting rather than our normal Spring Meeting. I’m sure even if it’s a joint meeting we could have a room for the AGM which could be before or after the scientific meeting. It does not have to be held at lunchtime.
Whether we go for the joint meeting or have our own, I do not think you will get the membership to attend both! As I said yesterday, cost will be a factor for them or for their department, and the other factor is getting time off work.

Steve, I know several council members are on holiday this week, so we may get a wider response next week when at least four of them should be back.

Regards to all
John
:)

[JohnB]

in reply to: Spring 2010 Meeting #811

Morning All,

Steve, Don, I’m also not sure how many Council members actually are in receipt of these posts. It seems to be spasmodic as I received the ‘prompt’ about Formaldehyde but did NOT receive any about this on the Council forum. I found it by checking all other parts of the forum after answering Sue question.

Several points about the spring meeting in what I’m afraid is going to be a long answer-
1. In this day and age of fewer staff and heavier workloads is inevitable that situations like this will arise. The fact that we have published the venue as being in Cardiff shouldn’t worry us as we published the venue in good faith and things can and do change. We have said Cardiff in 2010 and KCL in 2011 so they could be ‘switched’ providing everyone involved is agreeable.

2. Don is quite right in saying that we are obliged under the constitution/ rules to hold our AGM at the Spring Meeting

3. If it is at all possible I think we should hold our own meeting with the AGM, but this raises other issues which I will go into at the end of this post.

4. I somewhat disagree with Don’s comments about a combined meeting as if all three societies combine for a meeting it would need to have elements of interest for all three! Bequesting, Preservation Techniques and HTA matters in general could be the topics presented by the IAS and its then up to the delegates if they wish to attend all the talks, at present not everyone attend for all of our talks. This is what happens at larger meetings such as Path Soc with 100+ delegates which was at one time purely academic but now includes many technical presentations. At very large meetings (again such as the international Path Soc) it’s not unknown to have two presentations going on at the same time in different rooms and its up to the delegates which they attend. But I would prefer to see this in addition to our own meting —- if possible. Yet as Tracy said I can only see long term benefits from working with BACA and ASGBI

5. I like Don’s suggestion of a London based ‘workshop’ open to members of all three societies which may be the first step towards fully integrated meetings

Now some general points, if I may, but as a member – rather than as a Council member.
I have been attending IAS meetings for 24 years and for all of that time I have had to pay for myself and have never received a penny towards to costs or time off from Nottingham University or later from the NHS. So I think I can speak for some of our ‘grass root members’.

One-Day meetings in London are only really suitable for London based members or those in the South who can easily get to London. Because of the costs of getting to London (which can be disproportionately expensive) I have always travelled by car which has also allowed me the chance to socialise with other members after the meeting for an hour or two It has however meant starting out at 4-5 in the morning and getting home around midnight. For those who travel from further afield it can mean staying in a hotel for two nights if they are to be there for the start and finish of the meeting.
Two-Day meetings came about because of the travel involved, presumably in those early years it was travel FROM London to the venue. Wherever the two-day meetings are now held (London excluded) there is the possibility of cheap airfare. For me they are a better choice as they cost me very little more overall including the accommodation and conference dinner and have the (for me) benefit of being more relaxed and have a MUCH enhanced social aspect. This I believe is VERY important part of the IAS. I regard the two-day meetings in much the same way as I would a ‘city break’ with friends!
I hope some thought will be given to the relative merits of one or two-day meetings for our members, particularly now fewer people get financial support from their departments. If more people will in future have to pay for themselves we need to offer them more to ‘encourage’ their attendance at meetings. This is where I believe the conference dinner and social mix are so important!
I will be interested to read what others have to say!!
John

[JohnB]

in reply to: Proposed new WEL for Formaldehyde by HSE #809

Hello All
It has been ‘rumoured’ for over a decade that the WEL for Formaldehyde was to be lowered from the existing 2ppm which exists in the UK, and which is amongst the highest exposure limit in the world, or rather amongst the highest in countries that have introduced an exposure limit. If I remember correctly the majority of 1st world countries have been working to 1ppm or below for many years now. There are of course countries in the third world that have no exposure limits – and having in my pre COSHH time worked in departments with over 100ppm they have my total sympathy!
It’s worth pointing out that (1) this document is dated 2008 and the discussion period closed at the end of last year. (2) The controls were originally aimed at the manufacturing industries and (3) the NHS and the British Institute of Embalmers were, if I remember correctly, appealing against these new lower exposure limits and asking to be treated as an exception. (4) Whatever happened the new regulations would be due to be introduced over the next year.
I’ve been retired now for 15 months, but I will get in touch with all my old contacts in the NHS to see if I can learn anything more and will post any finding on our website. If anymore is a member of the BIE it would be worth contacting them to see if they have further news of what happened.
In my experience, in recent years the HSE has not been good at the dissemination of information, as in the case of suitable biosides and phenolics used for disinfection. At the end of the day the HSE will say its up to establishments to install adequate and suitable ventilation for the work, or failing that establishments MUST provide the correct PPE for staff who use Formaldehyde as part of their duties.
Finally, has anybody contacted universities etc in the USA, Europe and Australia to see what they are using for embalming or how they have managed with the exposure limits that are below those of the UK? Comments from out ‘overseas’ members would be welcome!
Regards to all
John
:?

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